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RedTaintedRose
Kitten
Joined: 27 Apr 2007
Posts: 147
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 Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 5:19 am Post subject: I want to outlaw birth! |
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Having my daughter almost killed me, I had a long hospital stay, I was in so much pain they quadrupled my meds, I nearly bled to death. I will never again have a child so because of the trauma I endured I want birth outlawed for all women everywhere..
Not reasonaable right? Because birth was life threatening for me does not give me the right to demand no woman ever has birth. Nor does a abortion experience give anyone the right to demand no abortion be allowed for any woman.
I am not making fun of anyone.
People who know me on other boards know I have a bad history with pregnancy. This does not excuse me from wanting to force my experiences on anyone else nor control their bodies because of them.
Personally the abortion I had was the best medical experience I have ever had. The staff were caring and personal. The facility comfortable and the doctor both kind and knowlegable.
There are two sides to every coin. |
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Jacinta
Tadpole
Joined: 26 Mar 2008
Posts: 19
Location: United States
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| Posted: Sat May 17, 2008 3:44 am Post subject: |
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| There are two sides to every issue, and abortion is no exception. The babies side and the mothers side, the only trouble with this particular is that we only can hear one side. your right that we can not force personal experinces on to other people, however it is not forcing personal opinions on others to insure that every person has certian rights. Such as Life, Liberty, and Persuit of Happiness. |
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Gematria
Ferret
Joined: 04 Feb 2007
Posts: 114
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| Posted: Sat May 17, 2008 11:56 am Post subject: |
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| Except there is no baby, just tissue. |
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antibigot
Tadpole
Joined: 12 May 2008
Posts: 17
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| Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 6:17 am Post subject: Re: I want to outlaw birth! |
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| RedTaintedRose wrote: | Having my daughter almost killed me, I had a long hospital stay, I was in so much pain they quadrupled my meds, I nearly bled to death. I will never again have a child so because of the trauma I endured I want birth outlawed for all women everywhere..
Not reasonaable right? Because birth was life threatening for me does not give me the right to demand no woman ever has birth. Nor does a abortion experience give anyone the right to demand no abortion be allowed for any woman.
I am not making fun of anyone.
People who know me on other boards know I have a bad history with pregnancy. This does not excuse me from wanting to force my experiences on anyone else nor control their bodies because of them.
Personally the abortion I had was the best medical experience I have ever had. The staff were caring and personal. The facility comfortable and the doctor both kind and knowlegable.
There are two sides to every coin. |
Pro-lifers do not see abortion as just a medical procedure.
Giving birth to a live baby and intentionally killing the unborn ARE two different situations and they don't compare even if in both cases the woman is in trouble. |
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antibigot
Tadpole
Joined: 12 May 2008
Posts: 17
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| Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 6:19 am Post subject: |
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| Gematria wrote: | | Except there is no baby, just tissue. |
I had no idea there was a "tissue stage" in the human life cycle.
If it's not a baby, then it's definitely not just tissue. |
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SpaceMarine
Goldfish
Joined: 29 Apr 2008
Posts: 63
Location: Phobos
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| Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 7:34 am Post subject: |
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| Jacinta wrote: | | There are two sides to every issue, and abortion is no exception. The babies side and the mothers side, the only trouble with this particular is that we only can hear one side. your right that we can not force personal experinces on to other people, however it is not forcing personal opinions on others to insure that every person has certian rights. Such as Life, Liberty, and Persuit of Happiness. |
Very well stated.
| antibogot wrote: | | I had no idea there was a "tissue stage" in the human life cycle. |
Neither did I. Of course the other perspective is that if the unborn offspring are just tissue, so are we. |
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RedTaintedRose
Kitten
Joined: 27 Apr 2007
Posts: 147
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| Posted: Wed May 28, 2008 5:43 am Post subject: |
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| Serious flaw here.. There is no legal definition of person applied to a fetus so it cannot be deprived of life or liberty. That clause is not applicable to the developing organism. |
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SpaceMarine
Goldfish
Joined: 29 Apr 2008
Posts: 63
Location: Phobos
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| Posted: Wed May 28, 2008 9:21 am Post subject: |
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| RedTaintedRose wrote: | | Serious flaw here.. There is no legal definition of person applied to a fetus so it cannot be deprived of life or liberty. That clause is not applicable to the developing organism. |
There is a serious flaw in believing that Life and Liberty are only applicable to persons. The origin of American rights of Life and Liberty are not limited to a legal definition of person. |
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RedTaintedRose
Kitten
Joined: 27 Apr 2007
Posts: 147
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| Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 9:25 am Post subject: Re: I want to outlaw birth! |
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| antibigot wrote: | | RedTaintedRose wrote: | Having my daughter almost killed me, I had a long hospital stay, I was in so much pain they quadrupled my meds, I nearly bled to death. I will never again have a child so because of the trauma I endured I want birth outlawed for all women everywhere..
Not reasonaable right? Because birth was life threatening for me does not give me the right to demand no woman ever has birth. Nor does a abortion experience give anyone the right to demand no abortion be allowed for any woman.
I am not making fun of anyone.
People who know me on other boards know I have a bad history with pregnancy. This does not excuse me from wanting to force my experiences on anyone else nor control their bodies because of them.
Personally the abortion I had was the best medical experience I have ever had. The staff were caring and personal. The facility comfortable and the doctor both kind and knowlegable.
There are two sides to every coin. |
Pro-lifers do not see abortion as just a medical procedure.
Giving birth to a live baby and intentionally killing the unborn ARE two different situations and they don't compare even if in both cases the woman is in trouble. |
Try, really hard, to grasp the main point for a change. It might do you good.
The so called pro lifer wanted to ban all abortion because she had a bad experience. That was her reasoning.
If that reasoning held true and we abolished abortion based on that premise then we ought to be able to ban birth since I had a bad experience.
Try comprehending what is written. I am getting tired of clarifying the obvious for you. |
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RedTaintedRose
Kitten
Joined: 27 Apr 2007
Posts: 147
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| Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 9:27 am Post subject: |
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| SpaceMarine wrote: | | RedTaintedRose wrote: | | Serious flaw here.. There is no legal definition of person applied to a fetus so it cannot be deprived of life or liberty. That clause is not applicable to the developing organism. |
There is a serious flaw in believing that Life and Liberty are only applicable to persons. The origin of American rights of Life and Liberty are not limited to a legal definition of person. |
There is no flaw. The legal definition of a person is a neonate. A fetus that has been born. Please provide the legal reference to your claim. |
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antibigot
Tadpole
Joined: 12 May 2008
Posts: 17
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| Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 12:44 pm Post subject: Re: I want to outlaw birth! |
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| RedTaintedRose wrote: | | antibigot wrote: | | RedTaintedRose wrote: | Having my daughter almost killed me, I had a long hospital stay, I was in so much pain they quadrupled my meds, I nearly bled to death. I will never again have a child so because of the trauma I endured I want birth outlawed for all women everywhere..
Not reasonaable right? Because birth was life threatening for me does not give me the right to demand no woman ever has birth. Nor does a abortion experience give anyone the right to demand no abortion be allowed for any woman.
I am not making fun of anyone.
People who know me on other boards know I have a bad history with pregnancy. This does not excuse me from wanting to force my experiences on anyone else nor control their bodies because of them.
Personally the abortion I had was the best medical experience I have ever had. The staff were caring and personal. The facility comfortable and the doctor both kind and knowlegable.
There are two sides to every coin. |
Pro-lifers do not see abortion as just a medical procedure.
Giving birth to a live baby and intentionally killing the unborn ARE two different situations and they don't compare even if in both cases the woman is in trouble. |
Try, really hard, to grasp the main point for a change. It might do you good.
The so called pro lifer wanted to ban all abortion because she had a bad experience. That was her reasoning.
If that reasoning held true and we abolished abortion based on that premise then we ought to be able to ban birth since I had a bad experience.
Try comprehending what is written. I am getting tired of clarifying the obvious for you. |
What pro-lifer are you talking about? Maybe you should have actually BROUGHT that up in THIS topic. Does she want abortion to be banned just because of her bad experience or because an unborn human was intentionally killed off?
And stop your condescending attitude. |
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TrueAtheist
Little Hamster
Joined: 14 Mar 2004
Posts: 75
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| Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 8:32 am Post subject: |
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| Jacinta wrote: | | There are two sides to every issue, and abortion is no exception. The babies side and the mothers side, the only trouble with this particular is that we only can hear one side. your right that we can not force personal experinces on to other people, however it is not forcing personal opinions on others to insure that every person has certian rights. Such as Life, Liberty, and Persuit of Happiness. |
I have a question.
If a baby is born in America to an illegal immagrant, then that baby is a legal US citizen.
So if an illegal immagrant concieves in the US and goes back to their country of origin before she gives birth, but can then prove that the day she concieved she was in the US, should the baby be considered a US citizen? If you're talking about the rights of the unborn, it would seem that this should be the case. |
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SpaceMarine
Goldfish
Joined: 29 Apr 2008
Posts: 63
Location: Phobos
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| Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 6:14 pm Post subject: |
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| RedTaintedRose wrote: | | SpaceMarine wrote: | | RedTaintedRose wrote: | | Serious flaw here.. There is no legal definition of person applied to a fetus so it cannot be deprived of life or liberty. That clause is not applicable to the developing organism. |
There is a serious flaw in believing that Life and Liberty are only applicable to persons. The origin of American rights of Life and Liberty are not limited to a legal definition of person. |
There is no flaw. The legal definition of a person is a neonate. A fetus that has been born. Please provide the legal reference to your claim. |
The basis of inherent rights are not limited by a legal definition. The US Supreme court has declared that the Rights to Life, Liberty and Property exist yet the origin is not the US Constitution, its the Declaration of Independence, which make no mention limiting to whom these rights are applicable to. There is no legal reason to believe that we can limit Rights to Life to legal persons. |
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KrystoChoicer
Tadpole
Joined: 13 Jun 2008
Posts: 20
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| Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 7:37 am Post subject: |
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| TrueAtheist wrote: | | Jacinta wrote: | | There are two sides to every issue, and abortion is no exception. The babies side and the mothers side, the only trouble with this particular is that we only can hear one side. your right that we can not force personal experinces on to other people, however it is not forcing personal opinions on others to insure that every person has certian rights. Such as Life, Liberty, and Persuit of Happiness. |
I have a question.
If a baby is born in America to an illegal immagrant, then that baby is a legal US citizen.
So if an illegal immagrant concieves in the US and goes back to their country of origin before she gives birth, but can then prove that the day she concieved she was in the US, should the baby be considered a US citizen? If you're talking about the rights of the unborn, it would seem that this should be the case. |
Citizenship is granted by a BIRTH certificate, not a conception certificate, so no, in no way do I believe that baby is an American citizen. You are a citizen of the country you are BORN in. |
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Gematria
Ferret
Joined: 04 Feb 2007
Posts: 114
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| Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 10:00 am Post subject: |
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| KrystoChoicer wrote: |
Citizenship is granted by a BIRTH certificate, not a conception certificate, so no, in no way do I believe that baby is an American citizen. You are a citizen of the country you are BORN in. |
I think the question was more aimed at pro-lifers, since they think a fertilized egg is a person with rights. |
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